Talk:Smiter's Boon (PvP)
In b4 Ish 20:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :Sure, Smiters were popular, but they were balanced with Resto Xinrae's Weapon, Vengeful Weapon and Weapon of Remedy Rits. They nerfed the skills to oblivion for PvP; they could have just increased the recharge to 20 seconds, reduced the duration to the same, and increase the casting time to 2 seconds. This seems like a joke, unless they planned a revert ahead of time. Maybe it's for upcoming tournaments or the double HA weekend? [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 21:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::If they'd have changed any one of these 3 stats it would put the standard build out of play. Why all three? You're right, looks like a joke. I've accepted every update quietly for 3 years, and this is the most ridiculous I've seen. Why didn't they just delete the skill? (My fav skill >__<) Sisipherr 21:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::Ya This has to be the biggest PvP nerf in history, ROFL! I DARE anyone to find a bigger nerf --'ilr' :::Hence it being your sig :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::: Yah it was my sig on several messages boards, IM, twitter, etc for a year. And I'm leaving it in tribute to what once was! Sisipherr 22:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::::The nerf is too extreme to be permanent, tbh. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 21:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC) Updates are for skill "balance" not skill removal... this is ubber failure. Big Bow 21:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :Hell, why did they stop there? Why not go the whole hog? Add a 5 second casting time, 17% sac, change it to 1.5x the DF bonus, and add a "This enchantment ends if you use a non-Smiting Prayers ally-affecting skill" clause. Seriously, what the hell was the point of this? Methnor 21:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::Or, the old specs but with something like: "For 30 seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double Divine Favor healing bonus. This enchantment ends if any allies are within Earshot." Note that you are an ally of yourself, so you basically spent 5 energy and 1.75 seconds for nothing. =P [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 23:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC) AHAHAHAHA this is a laughable update. Anet is so lazy. They dont even mind that monks have one less elite now? I have to give it to them though, they ARE good at thinking of the easiest way out of every problem, even if it means ruining their own game...Eikumbok 14:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC) Oops I thought it said "or," not "and." Sorry Mike. 21:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :Someone just said Assassin's Promise. I think we've found our way to get around the nerf. /sarcasm [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 21:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::I was also going to remove the note anyway, I just thought I'd let people know how utterly useless it is in PvP. XD [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 21:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC) "We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play." That quote right from the Devs pretty much says it all, bwahahahaha... --'ilr' :i lold when i saw the update-- 21:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC) Hahaha, what the hell? --GW-RM 21:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :Wow, what ridiculous gimmick build required changing it from 300% of the recharge to 6%? [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 21:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::Hmm. Makes Smiting worthwhile seems to be the approximate reasoning. [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 22:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::At least they willingly killed it and didn't think they were balancing it. — Powersurge360 23:33, 21 August 2008 (UTC) ::::Hold up, so they completely nerf smite monks (of which are not much trouble) but leave everything else alone? Damn you and your ignorance anet... 23:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::::You seem to be missing the horror of the PvP smite monks. They are monks, right? These monks, though, were neither healing nor mitigating damage in any way. Rather, they were dealing damage. Smite monks are a crime against nature, and had to be stopped at all costs. [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 23:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::::: Thats fucking retarded. What if I WANT to deal some fucking damage. Smiting prayers are meant to deal damage saying otherwise is retarded. Reversal of damage etc was just a way for a smiter to add some protection to their arsenal.~RASK 00:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :::::::So with that argument, how does the removal of this skill from the "arsenal" prevent smite monks from "dealing damage"? -- [[User:Isk8|''I~sk8]] (T/ 00:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Sorry, I forgot Sarcasm doesn't work well on the interwebs. Personally, I think that smiting being a viable option is a good thing, but Anet obviously believes otherwise. [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 00:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::I honestly can't see why this skill was overpowered to begin with. Unless the smite monks are just spamming reversal of damage all the time, I don't see that many other skills that can get much use out of this one... maybe Smite Hex/Condition, and a few other misc. skills. -- [[User:Isk8|I~sk8]] (T/ 00:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::That about covers it, from what the Dev update says. They were too good at removing Hexes and Conditions, and healing at the same time is unacceptable. [[user:Entrea|'Entrea']] [Talk] 00:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::::::::::::A smiter on your team means that your frontline is clean of all hexes and conditions AND provides tremendous pressure to whatever they happen to be smacking. It did too much at once in too quick intervals, heals, utilty, and damage. '— Powersurge360' 00:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :::::::::::::I think mending found a new friend... Backstabberu 01:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC) (Reset indent) Nice joke. YOu can nerf something without breaking it entirely. You could have left the duration at like 30 seconds and with a 90 second recharge and a 25 energy cost its still weakened considerably. Hell you could have just made the energy 25. Smiting monks aren't exactly bundles of energy. They can't afford to keep up a 25 energy skill (probably softened with a glyph down to 15) without costing them alot of the power of their bar. —[[User:JediRogue|'♥Jedi♥Rogue♥']] 20:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :But the point of the nerf was to essentially remove the skill from the game (in PvP); if they would have done a small nerf to Smiter's Boon, Smiters would still be used, albeit not as often, but with this, smite supports will become rare in PvP. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.]][[user_talk:St. Michael|мıкε']] 05:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC) ::NO F@#%in DUH! That's the whole point of the argument, Yes I know this is a month late but hell, Your comment hit the nail on the head. The point wasn't really to remove the skill from the game, It was to stop smiters from entering PvP. To be fair to the Devs I gotta say that skills that make a warrior look useless(which to me is a good thing :P) Is pretty annoying at times. But come on..."Smiter's Boon is a key skill in smite-heavy PvP teams that were generally overpowered and which too strongly discouraged the use of hexes and conditions" Awwww poor baby you had ALL your hexes removed. Providing a sufficient counter to hexes is "Overpowered" As a PvE Smiter I can tell you that yes you can remove conditions, Yes you can remove Hexes, and yes 3-5 Smiters can provide a HELL of removal but only "Discourages" those who depend solely on those things. Might as well ban the Scourge Skills, or Spoil Victor, Insidious Parasite, Visions of Regret or even Deep Wound, not to mention others that "Discourage" the use of attacking, healing or enchantments. The reasoning that it did "Too much at once", I think that's a cop out because while you could do a lot at once, you couldn't do it for very long energy wise. As for the healing.... even in it's former state, it would IMO be unwise to run more than 13 in Divine Favor, that's only 42 extra healing per spell, AND it has to use ally targeted spells. Seeing as only monks can use this skill to any effect whatsoever, being able to heal in sufficient amounts shouldn't be the issue. Pairing it with Divine Boon heals Ally-targeted Smites for 138(DF/Divine Boon/Smiter's Boon) at 13 DF for 7 energy and the loss of 1 pip of regen. The fact that only Reversal of Damage has any degree of spam ability just weakens the "Overpowered" argument more. Monks lose energy hand over fist when running Smiter's boon/Divine Boon, so E-Denial is a very real counter to this build. Honestly(and the rest of this rant is ALL my opinion)This skill was not overpowered, nor did it sufficiently overcharge Smiting Prayers. The Meta just wasn't in the mood to deal with the fact that *GASP* Monks were kicking a few of they're butts, and Smites as we all know are looked upon as n00b play until it smashes them across the face, so they whined to the Devs. And THAT is why Smiter's Boon is (as far as my Guild Wars knowledge takes me)the ONLY skill that has been, for all points and purpose BANNED from PvP. Because Smiting doesn't overwhelm the target, and instead "Goes around" them, it seems to be cheating...if and when it works. I am probably ignoring some facts in my lack of knowledge of the other side of the story but if I am, I ask that I be told. In any case I doubt that even if it is unbalanced, it could not have been fixed with a slight tweaking, hence what I said at the start that this was to discourage smiting not this skill's use. (NG) 10:58 October, 28, 2008 :::I'm starting to actually see another side, tbh. Smiter's are still used in TA, even after the nerf, however they'll usually take Remove Hex over Smite Hex. With Smiter's Boon, RoD was actually more reliable than RoF, and a Smiting Monk could Heal for more than a Rit ''while dealing some damage in the same skill. As far as I can tell, Smiter's Boon made Reversal of Damage better than Vengeful Weapon, and unless you were taking a million spirits, Smite Condition was also better than Mend Body and Soul. Or, you could just take Melandru's Resilience+Draw Conditions. >.> :::Now, I'm not sure if they nerfed it just because Smiters countered most shutdown/pressure builds, but because they could do that AND Heal decently at the same time, tbh. :::There were still much better ways to have balanced the skill, though, and I can think of about 20 off the top of my head. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 11:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC) ::::If you think about it support Smiters are meant to be a counter build, what I mean is that to deal damage the majority of smites require something be done to you for it to take effect. Kinda like an Internal Martial Art. All a Smiter can do is stare to death a Warrior or Assassin if he's not attacking him or one of his allies. HAHAHA I just thought of something funny, a Locust's Fury sin would absolutely OWN a Smiter's boon smiter, the damage from the daggers would be small but numerous thus minimizing the effect of RoD, and it doesn't use any hexes or conditions. Anyway back to the topic, I think it was nerfed because of you're second reason: It countered most shutdown/pressure builds and healed while doing it. (NG) 3:24 October, 29, 2008 WTF?????????????? Smiting Monks Just DIED. HOLY SHIT! I'll go uninstall Guild Wars now...They have officially make smiting support skills for -/Mo's There is no point to being a Mo/- in PvP any more. Smiters Boon is complete and UBER crap now. It has the 2nd longest recharge in the game with the highest energy cost (25) in the game, with the worst duration for it's effect in the game, It is worse than taking blessed signet on a W/Mo with no maintainable enchantments and without the skill symbolic strike. This skill is utter shit now. I just dont know what to say but..."Good night sweet smiting monks, may a flight of angels sing thee to thy passing."-- 01:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :Your post tells us pretty much why they slaughtered the skill. Backstabberu 01:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::That Monk primaries did Smiting prayers better than Monk secondaries? XD [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 02:15, 22 August 2008 (UTC) Nerf it, fine, but can they honestly say they could think of nothing better? I'm appalled. "We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play." So terrified were they of making a mistake in fixing another that they chose instead to deliberately screw up. :No, but the fact that you can't smite without it :P Backstabberu 14:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::You can, you just suck more. I really wonder why anet didn't just remove the skill from the game for PvP entirely. To nerf something this much and still leave it in the game is just adding insult to injury. --GW-Seventh 15:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::: Izzy was at the G|C in Leipzig, Germany. So I was. My guildleader asked him about smiters boon. He said, that they couldn't accept a skill that allows to heal and deal lot amounts of damage at once. So they "filled in ridicolous numbers" and nerfed it (It wouldn't be easy to remove something from the game). 07:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC) Change the function imo, or just make it heal for 50% more divine or something, right now its just lamesauce. I know the purpose wasnt to balance it but to remove it, but that doesnt really justify it. Izzy's job is after all to "BALANCE" not "KILL"...--Majnore 15:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC) I love the fuss being made over the death of this skill. Sure, skill balancing shouldn't completely obliterate a skill's usefulness in any area of the game, but honestly, this is an awful lot of anger over a skill that everyone managed to live without for two whole years - and the years acknowledged as the game's heyday, at that! 18:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC) :I think it's funny as hell. That skill existed for months and nobody used it. As soon as they saw rawr running 5 monks in GvG (3 of them smiters), they flocked to the skill like ugly on whoopi goldberg. Now that ANet decided smiter's boon needed a redesign, they all cry their hearts out because... well, I don't know, really. It's not like they had long enough to even get accustomed to its use. It surely isn't the only build they can play, nor does it invalidate the attribute. I simply can't fathom their loss over this skill, unless it's the same people who whined that their Rt/N minion bomber build was killed because of the soul reaping nerf. -Auron 18:23, 26 August 2008 (UTC) ::It was more than that. People like myself wanted to use monks from time to time as per say an elementalist, or a ritualist, where they could do decent damage while being able to apply generous or at least valid healing/party support. However, there are so few skills that are of actual use in PvP or PvE for smiting that if you invest those skills into your bar you become more of a liability than a useful tool. Like you said, pretty much the only useful skills in the smiting line for a monk primary are Strength of Honor, Judge's Incite, and Castigation signet. But now here is where we hit a snag. Now that they have nerfed Smiter's Boon, you now must invest into another attruibute to give adequate healing or protection to party members. There is nothing wrong with that, it just creates a skill bar that is just mediocre, not great. Returning to my previous point, there are several people out there that want to be a monk and basically have the abilities of a Rt or Ele. But the recharge times for Monk smiting skills are often so severe, or the energy cost so high, or the casting time to ridiculous, that most of the smiting prayer's line is utterly useless for a Monk primary, and is more reserved for a Rt/Mo, E/Mo, Me/Mo, or another class in general. There are just too many smiting skills that have been nerfed or just existed with not a good enough effect for their cost in one way or another.-- 00:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC) :::I get your point, but people wanting to play monk like an ele is no excuse for poor balance. Izzy tried to pull that in defense of splinter weapon and ancestors - "they're the only reason people play rit." Ups, bad logic. Balance the class more and maybe people will have a reason to play rit. In the end, he nerfed both splinter and ancestors, so I think he got the point. -Auron 10:20, 27 August 2008 (UTC) :::Lol, Rt/N bombers being hit by a Soul Reaping nerf? --- -- (s)talkpage 18:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC) ::::Smiter's Boon allowed Monks to play Smiters better than Monk Secondaries, but now there is little benefit to it. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 00:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC) This isnt actually nerfing, this is more banning the skill... 20:00, 2 September 2008 (UTC) This is not balance. I could care less if it's "Smiters Boon" or any other skill in the game. Balance is about making all skill valid... none overpowered, none underpowered. Sure 100% balance is difficult, but this isn't trying. Openly admitting to it being a cop-out strategy even is worse for the games future outlook. If you honestly care about GW, this is disgusting. If you think GW is ok, then it's kinda funny really. If going for comedy, they should have change functionality to "disconnects you from server". --Mooseyfate 05:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC) :You're right. This is not balance. They said so themselves. They plugged random numbers in to make the skill unusable. They're removing it from play until they can get time to rework it. :To recap for everyone who apparently missed that point: The Smiter's Boon "nerf" was not an attempt to balance the skill. The entire purpose of the change, as stated by ArenaNet, was to remove the skill from play. :If you're afraid of his ability to balance things because he removed a skill with poor design from play, I have to disagree with you (since that is a valid form of balance). If you're afraid that this means he can't balance the skill properly (based on this change), I'd also have to disagree with you, since they weren't even trying. -Auron 06:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC) ::"since they weren't even trying" -- which is precisely the problem. I don't care about semantics. They did what they said or said what they did? It's still a crock, based, I maintain, in laziness and/or cowardliness (take your own pick). Now we're coming up on a week later, with an unknown number of unique, workable solutions provided by an irked community. The mess is still on the floor. I've never used this skill. I don't even have a monk. But it's the principle that drives me to want to see a (virtual) protester, with a flip-card day counter and a sign, "Smiter's Boon (PvP). Day 7. What the hell, mate?" -- 00:19, 29 August 2008 (UTC) :::"we're coming up on a week later, with an unknown number of unique, workable solutions provided by an irked community." Since when did they redesign skills in a week? I don't think I've seen that happen in the entire history of Guild Wars. Also, show me one solution by an "irked" community member that isn't simply changing the numbers around. Remember, izzy wants a complete reworking, so making the recharge 30 seconds or making it cost 10 energy is completely missing the point - and that's what most people have been suggesting. If the suggestions are crap, of course he's going to ignore them. -Auron 01:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC) ::::More to the point, to paraphrase Carmack, "Perfection is not a reasonable target". Don't spend a month pondering the changes to a skill. The system's too complex. The skill, ripped from the game, reconstructed, and dumped back in: if that works out, it will be as much luck as skill. Instead, give us some approximation of perfection, and tweak it if it needs tweaking. Or at least leave it as a sub-par skill in the interim. "Smiter's Boon (PvP). Day 264. What the hell, mate?" -- 13 May 2009 GVG On the update page they said that they did this to remove it in GvG because it was overpowered there. So why not disable it for GvG like the PVE skills are for all types of PVP and change it again to its old discription for AB,TA,HA,RA and HB?Robertjanvaneijk1988 07:02, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :It creates a much more complicated game, harder to maintain, GW has a death sentence already, another valid reason. — Powersurge360 07:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC) RA I really enjoyed playing Smiter’s Boon in RA. Very sad to find they took it out. I liked support classes. :Smiter's Boon, Melandru's Resilience, Draw Conditions, SoH/Divine Boon, Reversal of Damage, Smite Hex, etc. was a pretty fun build in RA/TA. =/ [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 13:35, 22 August 2008 (UTC) ::Yeap another skill gone out cause of GvG and HA, that´s my main focus to talk äbout it on official wiki. How RA suffers from those changes.-- 20:36, 22 August 2008 (UTC)rain4est :::Wasn't used a lot in HA, it plagued GvG, TA, and RA though.-- 00:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC) ::Don't kid yourself. It was removed mostly because of TA (y'know, 3 smite monks, 1 melee builds). Like 72.189 says, it wasn't used at all in tombs, it blew chunks in RA, and its use in GvG was minimal, really - smiting mesmers with SoJ/Strength of Honor were more common than monks with smiters boon ever were. Outside of Automated Tournament play (which was plagued by disconnects, so people ran additional monks in case one of their heal monks disconned), it never saw use. Do more research before "talking about it" on those skill feedback pages, please :< -Auron 18:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC) I Want This Skill Back!!! So give it back already!!! - 22:42, 1 December 2008 (UTC) :no Cress Arvein 22:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC) ::*Casts Word of Censure on Cress* Now that we've taken care of that, I second the motion. We want SMITER'S BOON! Leggo my Smito!!! (NG) 10:04 December 06 2008 (Central Time) :::No, gtfo. Lord of all tyria 16:21, 6 December 2008 (UTC) ::::It's been 3 and a half months. You'd think that if Izzy actually knew how to do his JOB, he would've found a way to make this viable without being OP again. But then again this IS Izzy we're talking about here --Gimmethegepgun 16:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC) :Go back to PvE then. --- -- ( ) (talk) 16:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC) :: "Go back to Pve?" Oh come on please, don't insult my intellimagence my assuming....What the heck were you saying with that remark? And regardless, Just because YOU don't like the skill don't be hating those who did and still do. I mean if ANet nerfed Searing Flames we'd NEVER hear the end of it, and all 74.7.6.178 and myself were saying is that we wanted it back. And I never get to use Word of Censure so I use it whenever I can :P (NG) 11:18, 12 December 2008 (Central) :::Stop QQing and go Boon Bonding.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 05:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC) :(Reset indent) What Viper meant by "go back to pve" is just that- Smiter's Boon remains in its unnerfed form in PvE. :This skill should not be reverted back to it's previous form, because it was ridiculous. This skill was so incomprehendably imba that teams in TA ran 3 SBoon monks. (Or was it 4?) I'd rather not let people get a free Orison tacked on to their damage-dealing skills, thanks. --Shadowcrest 05:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC) ::It needed a nerf, but an increased Energy cost to 10 or 15, recharge to 20 and duration down to 20 probably would have been enough to slow down its use in PvP, instead of completely removing the skill along with most Smiters. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 14:22, 13 December 2008 (UTC) :::Doing ANY of those 3 would've smacked it out of general use, all of them would've probably turned it close to a graveyard skill. But certainly not to the extent this did --Gimmethegepgun 16:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC) :::: Yes I understand that Smiter's Boon is unchanged in PvE, And it may(MAY) come as a surprise to ya'll but I am not opposed to nerfing Smiter's boon, not in the least. While in my opinion it doesn't need to be changed, I will concede and respect that others think it is. So let me repeat that all I am saying is I want this skill back, Cut Divine Favor bonus in half, Cut Divine Favor healing in half and give us extra damage, Make it so that only the next 2...6...10 Smites heal for whatever. Just give us the fricken skill back and stop pretending that it doesn't exist. Some of us actually liked the fact the Smiter's got a boon. And ya know it just might be that in and of itself. The fact that a little used and rather difficult attribute to use got some attention. And to you Gigathrash: Stop telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing with they're Monks, It's insulting. (NG) 20:19 13 December 2008 (Central) :::::It was supposed to insulting. Now do it my way.--Łô√ë îğá†ħŕášħ 19:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::Ah that was my mistake then. I was assuming you were being unintentionally insensitive, instead of Obnoxiously Belligerent. Unless of course that last comment was sarcasm, in which case it didn't convey the message you intended. (NG) 16:20 14 December 2008 (Central) :::::::I agree with Gigathrash. Besides, did you not read the dev's notes? They intended to completely remove SB from PvP play altogether. It is their game, not yours. People who used SB have clearly moved on to a new metagame. King Neoterikos 23:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Yes I did in fact read the Dev's notes. Yes they did want to remove Smiter's Boon from play. And I in fact HATE the Metagame. I used Smiter's Boon of my own accord before it was popular and was usually accosted for being a N00bish smiter. Also I agree that they(ANet) created and manage the game. However none of those facts hold anything remotely relevant to the conversation. We the players make petitions all the time to the Developers, And they themselves have spoken that they try to take advice from us when it is sound. And when they make a bad decision it is US that pays. The fact that you point out that it "Isn't my game it's there's" is complete bull on account that if it was a change that YOU personally disliked you would never speak that to anyone that sided with you. To reiterate AGAIN, All I am ASKING(keyword) is that they give us a realistic re-work of the skill, which to be honest is really a very fair REQUEST(Are you paying attention? Keyword ). Oh and one more thing. Did you even read what Giga wrote because he really didn't speak about Smiter's Boon at all, at least not in this little...Topic?...Mini Topic...whatever you call the links inside the individual pages :D. (NG) 18:59 December 14 2008 (Central) (resetting indent) Do you not get it? You are doing noting but whinging about SB, as opposed to doing what you listed such as getting a petition, etc. There have been many changes made that I have disliked, but I have decided to get on with the game and form a new strategy, rather than complain, cry, and whinge about it. And I did read what Giga wrote, and they are 100% correct. Maybe you should read some of what you write; you generalise the players in far too broad a term ("us). Such changes don't effect those who don't use the skills. If you want your stupid request, go request it on the developer's page on the GWW, rather than creating a topic here and whinging about it. So, I'm sorry, but when you put words in my mouth, you just turn your argument into a pile of shit. Kthxbai. King Neoterikos 02:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC) :You know there's almost too much that is inaccurate in your statement to even address, however I will make an attempt. *1. I have have not be Whining about this change(Look up the definition if you do not believe me). All I have said if you read all of my posts on the page is that it was ridiculous what they did to this skill. Nerf, Buff, those are just terms players have used to describe balance changes to any particular Skill. What happened to SB was NOT a balance change it was a ban, which is a very different thing. *2. I did not "Put words in your mouth" like you untruthfully stated, If anything I took them out of your mouth. I did assume however(perhaps that was a mistake it does seem to make a Ass of of U & Me :P) what I believed to be a logical deduction, that you would not speak something like that to someone who was defending a point you agreed with(whatever that point may have been). If I spoke incorrectly I apologize, however something tells me that I didn't. *3. I have found new strategies, I am still use my monk for smiting and to be honest a SB build wasn't a build I used all the time, I actually only used to play it occasionally. *4. Giga never once spoke about SB, only about me personally, so unless your point in agreeing with him was to attack me and not the topic I have to repeat what I told him to you(See 4 posts above). *5. When I spoke of US I wasn't generalizing at all, US, the people who actually PLAY Guild Wars DO make requests all the time. I was simply stating that many different types of players with many different types of requests talk to the Devs, and that it isn't wrong or, well I don't what you think asking for a ban repeal of a skill is. IF(Keyword, don't misquote me) you are saying other wise then you are either being purposefully ignorant or lying. *6. I didn't start this topic some other guy with a IP address for a name did, since after my first post I have been answering personal attacks from various different posters. Honestly, I have "put up" with many changes without complaint simply because the skills were "Nerfed" NOT "BANNED", and because the particular skill that was banned was one I personally used I have spoken up on IT'S skill talk page. King, I apologize if I have Pissed you off personally in some way but there is no reason to be rude to me because I speak up. In my opinion this whole volley of posts cannot be good for this talk page so I will stop here and now. (NG) 10:52 December 15 2008 (Central) :*Warning Double Post* I almost forgot...Yes actually I HAVE made a Petition/rework skill....thingie majigger. So I'm not just standing here "Whining" *End Double Post* (NG) 11:16 December 15 2008 (Central) You kids play nice, now. I'd hate to see one of you "BANNED". (T/ ) 17:19, 15 December 2008 (UTC) But Mooooooooooooooooooom He started it! Lol Thanks, I think we needed someone to calm us down :P *Waits till Entropy turns around then casts Flare!* (NG) 11:36 December 15 2008 (Central) El Proposal! there, I fixed it for you, and all it took me was 1 minute of thinking, Izzy. Prevents 80 Heals with 200% DF on every skill, and needs high smiting prayers aswell as high DF to be effective. -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|''Taki Fujiko]] 17:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC) :Would be the same old song again. Maintainable, not ruptable, über cheap, and now a 60 heal instead of 80. Ehhh. --- -- ( ) (talk) 17:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC) ::60 Heal only if you invest in no third attribute. You have to have high smiting AND df for it to even work. Also: Enchantment removal skills quick reference. Okay I make it 30 cd 30 duration. So if it's stripped then it takes a while to come back, most stripping skills have a shorter cooldown than that. -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|Taki Fujiko]] 17:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC) :::Hey that's not bad, I kinda like it. I had another idea that I think would work. *5 Energy, 1/4 cast, 10 recharge. For 10 seconds: Smiting Prayers that target an ally deal no damage but when they would cause damage that Ally is healed for that amount. Could make it cost more or make recharge 15, but I kinda like that idea. (NG) 12:03 December 15 2008 (Central) :I like your idea Kael, but then you've got a huge problem: Smite Condition and Smite Hex: if cast on someone inside a group of enemies, it would instantly heal the target for 200-300. And that's not counting the aditional damage from Zealot's Fire the monk will almost certainly have active. It would be a huge healing spike that can instanly heal the target from 10 health back to full if enough targets were hit. I've also got a little idea of my own that would mostly bring back it's old function, but still balance it: just make it elite and a smiting counterpart of Healers Boon. Something like: :*10 energy (maybe 15), 1 sec cast time, 25 recharge. :*for 10...45 (0->12) your smiting prayers cast 50% faster and have 50% more divine favour bonus. :IMO, that would balance it: Elite slot for a skill that allows you to do A LOT with 1 skill ( the whole point of elite), moderatly stripable as it lasts long but has a rather long recharge, inferior to HB in healing terms and not overpowered as far as I can think of. Not that I actually PvP a lot and I completely missed the period when this was popular, so I don't know what the exact problem with it was, but I've read most of the above comments so I think I've got a pretty good idea.-- [[User:El_Nazgir|'El_Nazgir']] 19:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC) ::The reason it was imba, was cause you get a free Orison packed onto every Smite Hex/Condition, and a little more. Having HCT100% and just 20 heal less won't cut it; it'll run rampant. Smiting skills ''shouldn't heal more than just Divine Favor, because they have insane AoE damage. Heck, even today smiters are running around nilly willy causing more damage than SH over time (and getting stupid amounts of Energy because heroes are imba with Tease). Bringing this skill back into play is just.... Dumb, imo. --- -- ( ) (talk) 19:43, 31 December 2008 (UTC) :::That's why we need a complete rework of the skill. Smiters can still manage with Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight if they want some additional party support, so they aren't completely dead. Even Empathic Removal can be considered a decent heal for a Smiter. :::I just think it's dumb to have useless skills. Well, I can think of one use for this skill in PvP: a good laugh when a Mesmer uses Inspired Enchantment to remove it. XD [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 20:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC) How bout u use it to fuel deny hexes eh? -- 20:41, 11 January 2009 (UTC) I like the idea of making it Elite. It would shut up the Imba crowd(no offense), and would keep it viable. Though if it were Elite I would prefer it to have the mechanic that I postulated, because like El Mazgir said it would make certain smites Uber Spike heals. Unless there's no Baddies around in which case its just about worthless :P. But just imagine it, We'd get a Divine Intervention(Judge's) that's actually viable for use! (NG) 9:08 January, 15, 2009 (Central) Function Ok, call me noob or whatever, but I've always been confused as what this skill actually does. I take it it's very good... not so much in PVP anymore but I don't quite understand its function. It says your smiting prayers have double the divine favour healing bonus... but smiting prayers don't heal?? Or is it when you cast smiting prayers you get healed? -Kyte :Divine Favor - whenever you cast Monk spells on allies, they are healed for 3.2 health for each point of Divine Favor. This includes smiting spells like Reversal of Damage. With Smiter's Boon active, this becomes 6.4 health for each point of Divine Favor when you're using smiting spells. (T/ ) 04:27, 14 March 2009 (UTC) ::Now it just changes the color of one of your empty skill slots (in PvP). --- -- ( ) (talk) 13:45, 14 March 2009 (UTC) Maintanable? For shits and giggles: Would it be, in any way at all, possible to maintain this skill? Even if you were to assume that you were perfectly lucky (always activated HSR mods)?-- (Talk) ( ) 04:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC) :Let's see... Blessed Aura, of Enchanting, Glyph of Renewal and Quickening Zephyr might manage it. Obviously there's no fucking way you're gonna afford it, and you'd be much better off just using the skill twice than trying to maintain this, but yeah, I think it just might work. Technically. --Gimmethegepgun 04:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC) ::Ya, that should work. Auspicious Incantation should be able to handle most of the cost (since its recharge would be halved, as well), but you'd probably want a BiP just in case. [[User:St. Michael|'ــѕт.']][[user_talk:St. Michael|'мıкε']] 20:19, 11 June 2009 (UTC) :Y not just change the entire function of the skill since they dont like smite/healers idc to what but it is really annoying lookin at this skill wit its uselessness "keep the same in pve" :::yea y bother with the skill now i say just change it to decrease the recharge of your smiting prayers skills or something (User talk:Tomez28) ::::Better, your smiting prayers gain 1-2 points in smiting, move to smiting primary.-- 03:29, February 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::Smiting Prayers or Divine Favor? :::::Please consider making sense in future. A F K When 16:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)